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Author Topic: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0  (Read 3659 times)

Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2013, 11:09:15 PM »
I haven't had a problem with squirrels and such walking thru my pattern, but I never shot this load before either. I might get a few minutes to find out where the bulk of my shot hits, but that's about it for this year. I been looking at choke tubes. Holy crap, some of them folks are really proud of their product. $20 to way over $100. I'm not that into it. Is there really that much difference in performance ? I'm thinking going cheap and getting a Red Head or Hunter specialties for $20 before the kids discount.
New rubber boots are on the list as well. Another holy crap event. Camo boots start at about what I think the top of the line are worth and they go way up from there. These are just molded rubber boots for crying out loud. No leather bonded to a sole with eyelets and laces or zippers, nothing special to cost more in labor or time. Guess I have been out of the loop too long. One thing for sure, this is the wrong time of the year to shop for such things.
 The way things are going maybe I'll have to start saving for a new shotgun. It's getting hard to find 2 3/4 inch, 12 gauge shells. There's not a lot to be had in ammo for anything right now. I might have to learn to reload but components are tough to get and getting expensive too. I do have a reloader, just have no idea how to use it.
 Just for reference my shotgun is a Winchester 1200 chambered in 2 3/4 12 gauge. If anyone has recommendations on the choke tubes.
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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 11:09:47 AM »
You have been out of the game for too long.  ;D
 
Turkey hunting isn't exactly a rich man's sport, but there are a few specialized things that you have to have in order to do it, namely a turkey choke and turkey shells.
 
As for the gun, you probably do need to invest in one that shoots 3" shells.  3 1/2" isn't necessary.  I've got one, but only because I lucked on one for a pretty good deal that I couldn't pass up.  Before that though, I killed plenty of turkeys with 3" shells.  You should be able to find a good used Remington 870 Express Magnum chambered in 2 3/4" & 3" for $100-$150.  Prices are pretty high right now with everything going on, but they should go down.  Just watch Gunbroker and your local pawn shops.  The reason I say an 870 is because they are so popular, you will have no problem finding accessories or choke tubes for them.
 
For the choke tube, they do make a heck of a difference!!!!!  Just like with the jake you peppered, if it had been a squirrel, I'm sure it would have been dead, but since it was a turkey, all you got were feathers.  Turkeys are tough birds to kill!  That's why you shoot them in the head/neck and not the body.  Those feathers deflect alot of shot.  Like I said, even though you're shooting a shotgun, you're aiming like you're shooting a rifle.  That's why a lot of people (me included) have scopes on their turkey guns.  You want to throw a very dense pattern in a very small area.  You just can't do that with a regular choke tube.  There's all kinds of choke tubes out there, some good, some not so good.  Some cheap, some expensive.  The good thing about a choke tube though is after you buy it, you're done.  Get the best you can get and don't skimp.  The one I'm shooting is an Indian Creek Black Diamond Strike.  It cost $75, but it's well worth it.  Between the choke and shells I'm shooting, everything holds together well enough that I've got "dead turkeys" (on paper) out to 60 yards.
 
Shells are another thing you don't need to skimp on.  The ones I've got are Winchester X-tended Range #5 shot.  The wad is designed to hold everything together to extend the range, and it does (as evidenced by the turkey I shot a few years ago at 30 yards without a choke tube at all in the gun  ::)  ).  The bad thing about the shells is that they aren't cheap ($35 for 10) but to me, they're worth it.  You don't have to get something as expensive.  I killed plenty of turkeys with #4 Federal 3" turkey loads (about $15/10).
 
Patterning a turkey gun is a MUST!  Since you're essentially shooting an oversized rifle shot, you've got to know where it's going to hit.  My old 870 that I used to take shot shot high right from where the bead on the gun was actually at.  If I aligned the bead on the barrel with the center of a turkey's neck and shot, I would do good to get 1-2 pellets in the vitals at 20 yards, with the vast majority of the pellets sailing harmlessly over the turkey's head to the right.  Without having patterned the gun before hand though, I wouldn't have known this.  I couldn't tell you how many birds I shot with that gun, putting the bead low and to the left.  O0
 
Also, different gun/choke/shell combinations shoot differently.  Since you'll have the gun (whatever you decide on), and the choke (get the best you can afford), the thing that you can change are the shells.  You'll want to try different shells to see which ones pattern the best.  Generally, #4, #5, & #6 shot sizes are used for turkeys.  Get a box of #5 of several different kinds and try them (or see if you can bum a shell or two off some of your buddies of several different kinds).  Shoot them and look at the overall pattern for holes where pellets may be missing and count the number of hits in the vitals.  Do this with the different shells that you have to narrow it down to a single brand.  Then try the #4 & #6 shot in that brand and see what the results are.  With a 12 gauge, it's best to pattern at 30 yards.  Get some of the cardboard layer pads that come with pallets of products (available at grocery stores).  These are either in 48" x 40" or 42" x 42" sizes.  You can print turkey head targets off the internet (just do a search).  Put a target in the center of one of the layer pads and shoot.  The cardboard will catch the pellets that don't hit the paper and show where the majority of your pattern is hitting.
 
As for the rubber boots, check out the Sportsmans Guide.  Look at the Guide Gear 400 gram or 1000 gram rubber boots.  They're really good and won't break the bank.  The last pair I had lasted me 5-6 years and I'm pretty tough on them.  Not bad for a $40-$50 investment.  ;)
 
We tried to talk you out of starting to turkey hunt Mo.  ;D   It's really not that expensive, but just like any type of hunting, it takes a little to get set up and started in it.  I wouldn't mess with getting decoys yet.  Concentrate on getting a 3" gun, a good choke tube (either Carlson, Indian Creek, Kicks, or Primos), some shells, and getting your gun patterned.  I image that the season is just about over around there, so they should be putting their turkey shells on sale, as well as some of the calls.  Get some friction calls and start practicing.  You'll have until next year to accumulate the gun and choke tube.  If you talk to me nice, I may have some different 3" shells in different shot sizes I could send you.  ;)
 
The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

John Andrews Is My Hero!

In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline bohicajuan

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 05:04:04 PM »
BC is right about it not being a rich mans sport, but around here, we have plenty of weenies that just love playing dress up. They spend way too much to get matching camo everything. Instead of spending time patterning their shotgun or learning to use a call. Then they can't figure out why they dont get a bird when they go out.

I always thought the 1200 handled 3" shells? Are you saying it doesn't? I've got the 1300, which came out after the 1200, and mine will shoot 3" shells, but I bought it strictly as a dove gun and don't need 3" for that.

OH DO-DO!! I just saw where you shoot an I/C out of your shotgun and have to go with BC and say, you'd be better off borrowing someones gun or investing in a choke tube!! I/C is almost useless against a turkey past 12-15 feet. Sorry I didn't see this sooner!!!

I think you'd be better off and investing in a X-full choke. Check with a pawn shop and see what they have. Check Gunbroker too, they might have some used ones that are cheap. Needless to say, stop by the next gun show in your area and see what they have.

If you decide you're not going to get a choke tube, you really do need to pattern your gun. If you can get a modified choke on it, you can get kill shots out to say 30-35 yards Max.  if you know the gun and the pattern it shoots.

If you're going with a modified choke, try and stick to shotshells in the #5 and #6 range if thats legal in your neck of the woods. #6 is about as small as you want to go regardless. BC is right about paying for the more expensive shotshells. They do make a difference. Just remember that 1 box of 25 can last 3 or 4 years if you pattern your gun and know what to expect.

I prefer the 5 rounds, but I also shoot a 10 gauge and I can really tell the difference in the 5 pack premium shells. After you've patterned the gun, a 5 pack can last you 2 or 3 years, because you're seldom going to get more than one shot at any given time, and if you miss, the bird will be in the next county before it lands again. IMHO its better TO splurge on ammo. Ammo CAN make the difference

I dont use a scope myself, but I do use tru-glo sights. They're pretty cheap and you can put them on yourself, But neither is required, because what you have now on your shotgun is perfect and will get the job done as long as you know the gun and its capabilities.

I also agree with BC about Guide Gear products from Sportsmans Guide. I've been using their stuff since 1977 and have never had a problem. Their boots are really good quality and you'll save money if you go through Sportsmans Guide, more so than Bass Pro and Cabelas, but if you can get a deal at one of those places by all means jump on it.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 05:12:38 PM by bohicajuan »
To you gutless cowards and scumbags, who are trying to lie and rewrite history. To those out to commit genocide on the Southern people with your destruction of Confederate monuments and your attacks on Southern heritage and pride. Be happy for now. Because someday when that civil war you wanted starts. I will find you. And I will kill you.

Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 12:43:52 AM »
Wow I had no idea the turkey loads were so different. I have no idea wheither they come in 2 3/4. If they hold THAT tight a pattern, I can see where the special chokes and possibly scopes become a valuable asset. My gun shoots very low so I have to hold my head real high to make the bead and pattern agree. That's most likely where things went wrong.

 Bo, the 1200 Winchester was a 2 3/4 gun, the 1300 was virtually the same gun with a 3 inch chamber and a slightly different ejector spring. I remember calling Winchester when I first got the gun from my step-dad. I was asking about the use of steel shot safely. Yes it will handle steel with all 3 factory chokes which I have( if I can find them). The conversation turned to barrel interchange and they told me that the 1300 barrel will work on the 1200 if I change the ejector spring as well. The 1200 barrel will work on a 1300 with no other changes. Hmmm... Maybe just a new barrel.

 I have never been a fan of Remington for no preticular reason. That might change. They do have a larger variety of goodies readily available under normal circumstances and they seem slimmer in the wrist area for smaller hands. After a long day of shooting that might make a difference.

 The rubber boots are going to be needed for bow season so they are pretty high priority. The season closes this week-end, but I'm out of opportunities, so my season is over. I'll be practicing with the calls and be ready, or at least more ready for next year.
John Andrews is my hero !

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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 11:20:37 AM »
I wouldn't try just swapping out the barrel Mo.  If your receiver can't handle 3" shells (which the 1200 apparently wasn't made to do), then it won't matter if you swap the barrel out or not.  I'm sure if you compare the receiver lengths of a 1200 vs. a 1300, you'll find the 1300 is probably a 1/4" longer.  ;)
 
Yes, they make 2 3/4" turkey shells, but they're pretty hard to find any more.  All of the "good" loads are in 3" and 3 1/2".  There is a BIG difference between turkey loads and normal field loads.
 
The choke tube is going to be one of the most important things you can buy.  Some companies label their chokes as Turkey chokes, others label them as Xtra Full, some X-Full Turkey.  It all comes down to the constriction.  You're looking for something in the .660" - .665" constriction for a 12 gauge (except for a Mossberg 835 - theirs run at .675").
 
The reason I mentioned getting a Remington 870 is because of several factors.  First, the gun itself is tougher than s*it!  :o   I saw a gun in goose pit once beating the crap out of one with a hammer and screw driver down in the receiver trying to straighten a piece out.  He finally just took the entire piece out (broke it off), and the gun kept working!  Other reasons are that they're pretty common.  You should be able to pick up a used one pretty cheap.  With as common as they are, there's a ton of after-market accessories for them.  ;)   The 870 Super Magnum I've got has the black plastic stock on it currently.  I'm going to take it off this year and put either a pistol grip or thumbhole stock on it.  All I use the gun for is turkey hunting, so I might as well customize it for it.  O0   The other great thing I've noticed about the 870 is that generally wherever it points, something dies.  >:D   They're just good all around guns for about anything that you'd need them for.  I've got a rifled slug barrel for one of mine and used to deer hunt with it.
 
After this gun stuff dies down a bit, keep your eyes open at the local pawn shops.  You should be able to find a decent deal on a shotgun there.  The Mossberg 835 is a heck of a turkey gun, but to me, those thinks kill on both ends, even with light field loads.  :o
The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

John Andrews Is My Hero!

In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2013, 08:38:24 AM »
I shot a buddies Moss 500 with slugs. I know what you mean about kills at both ends. Something about the posture between me and the gun, it about broke my nose. Not the gun itself but my thumb behind the receiver slammed back into my nose. I find the safety position on the back of the receiver a bit inconvienient.
 Not sure about the barrel swap. First off, I looked on GB. I can buy the whole gun for the same as a barrel. I would have to pay slightly more for shipping and FFL, but that's pretty minor for the rest of the gun. I'll have to get an empty 3 inch from SIL and see if it will eject.
 Good thing I got time on my side. Prices on GB are ridiculous. A Moss 500 which sold at Wally World a year ago for $230 is about $400 right now and most are some tactical configuration (thanks Biden).
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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2013, 09:57:47 AM »
Honestly, I'd stay away from Mossberg 500's.  For some reason, they're too hard to find good chokes for.  Look on Bass Pro or Cabela's web sites at the Carlson, Indian Creek, Kicks, and Primos turkey chokes.  Notice what models of guns they make them for.  Try to find a gun in one of those models.
 
To me, the stock on a Mossberg just doesn't fit me right.  The comb doesn't have enough drop to it and it eats my cheek bone up.  I've tried shooting several models and they all do it.  The 870 doesn't do that to me is one reason I like them so much.
 
Used to be, you could buy a new Remington 870 Express Magnum (3" version) with a wood stock for around $225.  Now, used ones are going for $250-275.  :x
 
Was looking on Gunbroker and found a pretty nice one used one Mo.  Little expensive at $275, but it's already got a turkey choke.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339188137
 
Here's a fugly one for $250.  ;D   But it's in KY.  O0
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=339190638
 
 
The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

John Andrews Is My Hero!

In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2013, 09:00:11 PM »
Interesting thing about all those high priced guns none of them have any bids on them.
 I think I could really get onto the whole turkey hunting thing but in my case it will pay to be patient. I threw my name in the hat to get into the apprentice program for meatcutters (they are the only ones who can use the saws). It occurred to me the other day that if I get it, my work day will be from 6 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. That's the entire hunting day.
 I'll go ahead and practice the calls and get the boots I need for other seasons and if a screaming good deal comes up on a shotgun when I got the cash, that too. It just doesn't seem prudent to search out and buy a new gun or decoys when the odds are I won't have the time to use them.
John Andrews is my hero !

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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2013, 11:17:54 PM »
I don't know, look at it like this........  Get the boots, you know you can use them multi-season.  As for the shotgun, keep your eyes open on GunBroker and visit the pawn shops in your area.  See if any of the pawn shops will do layaway or a payment plan with you.  If a good deal comes along, jump on it.  You can always use another gun.  >:D  Besides, a good shotgun is such a versetile gun.  You can use them for squirrel, waterfowl, deer, turkey, upland birds, etc.  All you have to do is change the choke and shells.

Really, check into the layaway with some of the pawn shops in the area.  The one where I get my guns does it.  I've got 2 there now that I've been paying on, a full size .45 and an AR-15.  Went by there today and paid some more on the guns.  O0
The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

John Andrews Is My Hero!

In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Round one: Turkeys 1/ Mo 0
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2013, 11:34:16 PM »
I don't know, look at it like this........  Get the boots, you know you can use them multi-season.  As for the shotgun, keep your eyes open on GunBroker and visit the pawn shops in your area.  See if any of the pawn shops will do layaway or a payment plan with you.  If a good deal comes along, jump on it.  You can always use another gun.  >:D  Besides, a good shotgun is such a versetile gun.  You can use them for squirrel, waterfowl, deer, turkey, upland birds, etc.  All you have to do is change the choke and shells.

Really, check into the layaway with some of the pawn shops in the area.  The one where I get my guns does it.  I've got 2 there now that I've been paying on, a full size .45 and an AR-15.  Went by there today and paid some more on the guns.  O0


Yeah, that's the only reason a shotgun is still on the list. I'll check into the lay-away thing. 2 of the 3 local shops seem like decent folk and the gunshop where my HMR came from just might be a good choice.
John Andrews is my hero !

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