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Author Topic: Varmit Hunting  (Read 3685 times)

Offline shadow

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Varmit Hunting
« on: January 29, 2005, 01:59:02 PM »
I just wanted to make a comment about Coyote hunting,(maybe wrong forum) but at the risk of being bombarded with nasty post here goes. Now this is just my opinion based on what I've observed in my lifetime and I'm sure everyone has seen this also. When I lived in Nevada in 1976 they had a bounty on coyotes and all it did was stress the coyotes to produce higher liter counts. Turned out to be a loosing situation for the state of Nevada but a short winfall for the coyote hunters. They ended the program. Now mind you at that time there were no coyotes east of the Mississippi. Now every state in the union but Hawiai has a significant coyote population. Recent research is showing that the coyote is evolving into a pack animal like it's older cousin the wolf, but with one key adaptability skill. They can live among us virtually stress free. The wolf can't do that. I now live in the state of New York and have seen a rise in coyote populations the past 5 years alone. Everyone is getting into Predator hunting. I truely believe the coyote problem will get significantly worse in our state and else where. Especially since we had record decline in deer harvest in New York and Pennsylvania this past hunting season.(Caused by the abuse of the doe permit system) We now have competition for venison. I also believe we never ever will beat the coyote back to controled populations. They are here to stay and personally, I'm adapting my AR-15 for predator hunting and I suggest you all do the same before this affects your deer populations, If It hasn't already. What do you think of the situation in your home states?
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Offline John Andrews

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2005, 05:12:14 PM »
Shadow, you have posted an excellent subject. Our 'yote numbers have soared and predation has increased accordingly. Yes on the large coyote packs, too. We see packs here numbering about 40 animals to within about  a dozen or two dozen not unusual.  Most nights I  hear several large packs  howling, and most are pretty close to inhabited buildings. Twice I have had to respond to coyote/people encounters and on one occasion had two coyotes run up to me and bark at me. The two coyotes did that twice within a few minutes. I think they had pups nearby, from the way they acted. They didn't offer to bite, they just wanted me to leave.  I see a lot more pups in the spring nowdays while I am on patrol,  many of which are on the road and would be easy to pick up.  My wife and I raised a coyote and had her almost 8 years. Their dog type behavior is pretty interesting, and their wild instincts are easily seen, too.  Another one of our members, henry, my wife's brother, remembers that coyote, Coco. Hi ya, henry! Still coming next Saturday?
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Offline ellwoodjake

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2005, 06:54:49 PM »
We too are seeing an upswing in coyote poulations, along with a decline in game and changing behavior in game species. Our wildlife dept. is just like dept.s in other states, in that they will wait until one or more species are wiped out entirely before they will admit a problem. What makes the coyote so adaptable is their great intellegence. When I was a boy, I had a collie- cross who was real smart. He would watch a groundhog hole all day and pattern him.  After he chased him a time or two and figured him out , he would circle 10 acres and stalk until he got behind the hog and between him and his hole. Once he got this downpat, I would come home from school about twice a week and find a groundhog laying in the yard. Coyotes know this routine as well, and the groundhogs that were once plentiful, are now a rare sight, unless they are right in someone's yard. The grouse that we used to jump-shoot when we were teenagers, now come up wild before you  even get in shooting range. The quail are long gone.  Rabbits that used to circle back to you in front of a pack of beagles, now make a bee-line for the nearest hole. I can't help but to blame it all on coyotes, which we didn't have back then.
     One wildlife officer here shared his theories with me and he may well be right. When we were teen's, there was a strong fur market. We pursued all predators hard back then, and would have killed coyotes as well.  With predators suppressed, game animals flourished-even dumb ones. He also thinks that the increased deer population, as well as increased deer hunting is helping the coyotes spread and thrive. He said " marginal coyotes that normally wouldn't make it through a hard winter, are now being subsidized by deer you guys don't recover, carcass parts you put in the woods and wounded deer that die when hard times come. You guys make sure they have a freezer full of food when they need it most. And when spring comes, they are in great shape to bring a new generation forth." He also said that their study of deer hair in coyote scat bears this out. Coyotes are not bringing the deer down themselves, but are only opportunistic, or else the hair would be there year round.
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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2005, 08:43:57 PM »
i have tried at least 8 hunts in the last 2 years for coyotes. i heard the population was through the roof, so i bought a digital caller, a bunch of snow camo, and a 223, and i also rigged up a moving wounded rabbit decoy. i have tried many times to call em in in the last 2 years, and have not even seen one or cut a track. the rest of the country must have a coyote problem. even before i bought all that junk, i'd even go out 2 or 3 times a year with a reed style caller, my spotting scope, binos and a 243. i have been in southeastern south dakota for 8 years now, and all the time i have hunted, which is at least 25 days a year, i have seen one coyote east of the missouri.

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2005, 11:39:24 PM »
They are not that bad here. I don't know about statewide...but do know in my particular zone. If anything, we have a problem with too many deer. So much of a problem, in fact, they opened up protected parks for slayings  this past season. Not hunting..just had a draw, the best archers went in and stacked em up. But, there were just too many poor deer.

There's only 1 active pack that I know of in my immediate area. But, I ain't complaining. If they got too bad, I'd start hunting them. Right now, we have an agreement. They stay outta my yard, I won't shoot the biggest one in their pack.
 ^-^    But, I don't mind em much either as far as in the forest......supposedly, they help the decline in our quail population....but other than that, I like seeing them and hearing them at night. They're too skittish anyhow..you'll never see them if they see you.

Offline Big58cal

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2005, 06:21:20 AM »
As someone already said, one of the main reasons for the increase of coyotes (as well as other furbearers) is the lack of trapping going on now days.  Used to be, everybody and their brother trapped.  Now, it's rare to see anyone doing it.  I think last year, the KDFWR only sold about 250 trapping licenses.
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Offline shadow

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2005, 10:00:50 AM »
To add a point about coyotes forming packs.....Biologist studying this refer to them as gangs not packs. mainly because they act as a gang when hunting. All members of the gang really don't know their jobs. In a wolf pack all members know whay to do in a hunt . It's unspoken, meaning.. they give no signals to each other, it's all instinctive or in their genes. Passed down for thousands of years. Now the coyote is just figuring this out.(evolving) They say at this point they are not adapt killers of larger animals yet. When they do take down a deer it's a long and painfull death for the deer, sometmes being eaten alive. They don't quite have the throat kill down yet. Think about that for a few. When they do evolve to an efficient hunter of larger animals, our problems will increase astronomically. And for all of you who don't YET have a problem. It's coming !!
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Offline John Andrews

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2005, 11:25:57 AM »
Very good, Shadow! Here, you can drive around in daylight and count 8 or 10 easily in one day.  One of my fellow offficers counted 8 in about an hour one day recently. We have several small hunting groups here that kill over a hundred coyotes per group every winter.  Surprisingly, it doesn't seem to dent the 'yote population. More just move in to fill the void. Most of our calling hunters hunt in pairs, especially in heavy coyote areas. You can have a bunch of them show up at once!
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Offline MOSPARKY

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2005, 11:49:18 PM »
our state dept. says we have a problem.We have an open season,no limit that only closes for spring turkey season. I don't get to see many ,but sometimes hear them at night.Another problem,which may apply in your states is inter-breeding with dogs tame or feral.We refer to them as Coy-Dogs.They're not as shy as you would expect in fact sometimes downright bold.I don't think a female dog will "stand" for a coyote but a female coyote will stand for a dog.And fido will mount anything,as most of us have seen.

 Don't know how true it is but I heard that while in the pack,the only breeders are alpha male and alpha female.If you hunt and kill one of these the rest will break up and form their own breeding packs/gangs.So by killing one you've created a dozen or so breeders.

Studies have shown that coyotes numbers tend to track game numbers.Game populations go up and approach overabundance levels,then predator numbers increase due to the food supply.Game gets scarce and predators decline for lack of food.It stands to reason that if coyotes are being supplemented in their diet,beit thru wounded/unrecovered game,gutpiles, or raiding fido's outdoor dish,then natures checks and balances won't work the way they should.

So the moral is take care not to add to the problem and try to take the younger ones first.
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Offline shadow

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Re: Varmit Hunting
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2005, 11:17:02 AM »
When I lived in Nevada, my inlaws had  a coy-dog. You couldn't scold her. If you did she avoided you from then on. She had some pups under the house one day and at that time I was the only one she seem to be ok with, so my brother-in-law had me crawl under the house to make sure she was alright. When I got close to her she freaked out. I barely got out from under the house before she bit my boot. If it hadn't been for the fact that there was a crowd standing there, I think she would have continued on after me. A couple of weeks later she emerged from under the house as if nothing happened. She had eaten her pups !! I always blamed myself for that one. Looking back on it now though, that dog wasn't right from the get go.
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