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Author Topic: Will they be alive  (Read 5896 times)

Offline John Andrews

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 09:33:46 AM »
The .17s are here to stay. The only other recent attempted round in the rimfire range was the 5mm, and it never even got popular enough to get off the ground. The .17s are so popular because of such a great leap forward. Easily multiplying the effective range by two has been not only been overdue, the accuracy right out of the box makes a .17 rifle as attractive as the Doublemint Twin girls.

The invention of the .22 Special years ago (WRF), the .22 Magum, and then the hyper velocity .22 rounds were attempts to jack up the popular .22 . And, they were good ideas that meant improvement for many rimfire shooters.

The .17 wasn't developed to kill the .22 . It was taking an already popular round and inventing something much hotter and improving accuracy. That's the Holy Grail of a new round, accuracy with a good performance bullet.

Aside from the fancy accuracy and down range performance, the little round is just fun to shoot. It is safe to say that shooters that get shooting time with a .17 have rave reviews. Not only novice shooters, but many experienced shooters are shocked by the performance of the .17 .

True, the .17 won't bury the long popular .22, but it rightfully takes a chunk out of their sales. When you can take some rimfire rifles right out of the box and get 1 inch groups at 200 yards, that's performance. At 100 yards, the average .17 right out of the box will print a better group than most anything sported at the range, including many centerfires.

A favorite sport with the .17 rimfire shooters is shooting house flys at 100 yards. Think about it, fly splatter around that tiny .17 hole at 100 yards being no challenge.

And .17 hunting has almost re-invented squirrel hunting and persuit of other game. This isn't just hype. More and more of us get out there every chance we can and enjoy the extended range and accuracy of .17 hunting.

For Doubting Thomases, just go shoot a .17 and give it an honest opinion.
 
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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 09:40:21 AM »
Of course, I won't buy a .17 HM2 or HMR because I cannot be convinced that the round won't die out relatively soon. If I had some kind of garuantee that it would be around 10 years from now, I would buy one. But, since no such garuantee exists, my closet will remain bare of the infamous .17.

Ks, I thought you quit smoking crack, but alas, I see you've donned the pipe once again. :idiot2  There are too many people shooting them, too much literature has been written on them, and they are overall just too popular that THEY WILL be around in 10 years.

If you're looking for guarantees that a cartridge is still going to be around in 10 years, you're going to be S.O.L. on that.  There's no guarantee written anywhere that ANY cartridge is still going to be in existance in 10 years.  There could be a nuclear strike, wiping out most of the planet within 10 years.  You never know what's going to happen.  If you try to use that argument before buying any gun, then by all rights, you shouldn't have any guns at all, because there's no way to absolutely know.

Now what CAN be done is to make an educated guess.  Look at the popularity of the cartridge, what benefits it has over existing calibers, how much material has been written about it, etc.  Then, based on what you've found out, decide what the probability of the cartridge still being around would be. O0
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In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline John Andrews

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 01:07:38 PM »
Yeah, the rimfire .17s have taken the shooting world by storm. The thing is, I have been shooting .22s for well over 50 years and know the limitations and benefits. For another rimfire to impress me, it has to prove it is worth having and recommending. I would be the first to condemn a round that doesn't live up to what is should be doing.
Being as impressed as I am with the .17s, I can honestly advise buying one. 
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Offline .17HMRHUNTER

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 01:37:03 PM »
Well if yall were adviseing me I already have one. And love it.

Offline Ks_Sniper

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 01:40:43 PM »
Puff puff pass... I'm just sayin. ;D I know there's no way to really tell what's gonna happen with any given round in a decade, but one of the factors I look at is reloadability. Does the round have a parent case that I could modify if it dies out? In the instance of the rimfire .17's, it cannot be reloaded which negates the second question. So, it's not real high on my wish list. Can't blame a fella for being a bit overly conservative. O0

As for the WSM/WSSM's, they are reloadable, but have no parent case, meaning the brass will always be hard to get and expensive. I DO think that the 7 & 300 chamberings in the WSMs will do just fine, though.
When I was a child, I lived as a child. When I became a man, I put away my childish things and became a Gutpiler!

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Offline Big58cal

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2007, 02:16:57 PM »
In the instance of the rimfire .17's, it cannot be reloaded which negates the second question.  So, it's not real high on my wish list. Can't blame a fella for being a bit overly conservative.  O0

As for the WSM/WSSM's, they are reloadable, but have no parent case, meaning the brass will always be hard to get and expensive. I DO think that the 7 & 300 chamberings in the WSMs will do just fine, though.


The .22 LR and .22 Mag can't be reloaded either, but I bet you've got at least 1 of the two. :wink:  So, since it can't be reloaded, you should probably get rid of it, being as conservative as you are. O0

The WSM and WSSM calibers are nice and have benefits, but down in the caliber range most of them are at, you can usually find an existing caliber that will dang near do what you want.  The ones that I would be cautious of are the RUM's (Remington Ultra Mag's).  I've had several gun shop owners tell me that those really aren't selling, but the WSM and WSSM's are pretty steady.

As for the new rounds like the .308 Marlin, .338 Federal, and the .375 Ruger..............I really don't know.  The .308 Marlin will probably die out.  In my opinion, it's in too small of a niche market.  The .338 Federal will probably be another one to die out.  For the .375 Ruger though, I think it may stick around.  When you get up to the .375 range, they thump you right good!  People don't necessarily like getting thumped like that.  With the .375 Ruger having better ballistics than the .375 H&H, but with less recoil, I think that will be the main selling point. O0

Then again, I could just be getting a contact buzz from what Ks has been smoking. ;D   
The only purpose of bread is to hold meat!

John Andrews Is My Hero!

In all seriousness, the Marlin is a great rifle, too. I own a Model 60, one of the best rifles ever made.
Brownings are nice, but in terms of quality AND accuarcy AND ruggedness, it's hard to beat the Marlin.
California sucks that's it.

Offline Ks_Sniper

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2007, 03:20:48 PM »
Good stuff, eh BC? ;D The .22LR/Mag have been around for a long time and have been popular for during most of its life. THAT is why I own and enjoy my Marlin 60 and Ruger Mk II. It's not going anywhere. I may still get a .17, but for now the .22's I have meet my small game, rimfire needs.

As for the RUM's, we won't even get started. Those fairly well died the moment they hit the market. I've never even seen a single RUM chambered rifle since they first came out. I just found the parent case for the WSM/WSSMs... and it kinda explains why they are so expensive. They're based on the 404 Jeffrey brass, which you don't see a lot of anyways and run around $2 each. If I were to get a WSM, I think the newer 325 WSM fills its niche quite well as it is comparable to the .338 with a good deal less recoil. I also think the new line that Ruger put out will have mixed results and looking at the ballistics, I agree with you there BC. I doubt any but the 375 will survive.

hunter, if you decide to keep the quarter bore there, then be prepared to treat it like any other wildcat. I do think that the .243 WSSM will survive though. That means that it will be a relatively easy transition to neck up the .243 to .25. Let us know what you decide. O0
When I was a child, I lived as a child. When I became a man, I put away my childish things and became a Gutpiler!

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2007, 06:58:54 PM »
On the WSSM I would pick the same as Sniper. The 325 actually a .323 or 8mm is more then the 300 Mags unless you throw in the Weatherby but less severe on the shoulder then the 338 Win.
Stacking up on brass would be right up front with priorities

Only drawback is that the selection of 8mm bullets is somewhat limited.

Offline Ks_Sniper

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2007, 10:04:28 PM »
Actually, as I understand it, the .325 WSM actually has less recoil than a .300 Win Mag with much the same stats as the .338 Win Mag. O0
When I was a child, I lived as a child. When I became a man, I put away my childish things and became a Gutpiler!

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Offline John Andrews

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Re: Will they be alive
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2007, 10:56:20 AM »
Ks_ doesn't own a .17.  :roll:  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'( We are still pulling for ya, Ks_! I was satisfied with my .22s until I shot my son's .17HMR and witnessed how it performed.  O0 From then on, it was my life mission to own one.
I put my Savage on lawaway at Wallyworld and told my wife it was a the greatest bargain of the century and it was the last one on the shelf. They were hard to come by back them. I forgot to mention the scope I ordered, of course.   :wink: :roll: Waiting days for the scope was a killer. They had the scope rings in stock, cheap.

Then came the after market trigger, the Basix Sear Kit from Brownell's. I got it with the gunsmith discount and my 'smith pal put it in for free, if I remember correctly. The factory trigger took two men and a boy to pull.  :shock:
And what's a heavy varmint barrel rifle without a good leather sling?  :wink:
So, I ended up with a match grade one holer for under $500.  :)  :)  :)
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